December 20,1973 – LA

Prabhupāda: …that the energy is displayed. It works; again it comes back to the original. That’s all. So what is their idea of conservation of energy? The same thing?

Karandhara: Well, they say that there is no original. It never began, so there’s no original.

Hṛdayānanda: They also say that there’s no resting place. They say that energy has no resting place.

Prabhupāda: But that is observed, because we see the energy is coming from the powerhouse, electric energy. How you cannot deny?

Karandhara: The energy is just generated there, but it is not created there.

Prabhupāda: Generated…, you simply change the name. What is the difference between generated and created?

Karandhara: Well, created means to be born or to start.

Prabhupāda: Yes, born. The child is created. There was no child.

Karandhara: But the energy which makes up this body was always present.

Prabhupāda: That we also say. By the formation, when it takes place, it is created. Just like you prepare food. Why do you say “prepare”? What is the meaning of “prepare”? The ingredients are there, but why do you say “prepare food”? You cannot say…

Hṛdayānanda: Because before…

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Hṛdayānanda: Before you prepare it, that particular preparation…

Prabhupāda: That we say. The energy was…

Karandhara: That is just a conventional term in relationship to you. That is just relative to you, relative to your relationship with that food.

Prabhupāda: This is called impersonalism…

Karandhara: But the food was always there.

Prabhupāda: …that… We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor.

Why does he not…, “No, it is māyā. Why I shall be troubled with the toothache?” Why does he go to the doctor? That is the defect of Māyāvāda philosophy. They are being affected by the change, but still, they will say, “There is no change. It is all the same.”

Karandhara: Well, that is what they say. They say, “If it is all the same, then I can go to the doctor.”

Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is foolishness. If they say once that “The suffering and not suffering is all the same,” why does he go to the doctor?

Karandhara: Well, when you say, “It’s all the same,” it doesn’t matter what you do. You have encompassed everything.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] That is…

Girirāja: But they always go.

Karandhara: That doesn’t matter. If they don’t go or do go, it’s all the same. It doesn’t matter.

Prabhupāda: That means it doesn’t matter… If I beat you with shoes, it doesn’t matter? Why do you become angry?

Karandhara: Well, it doesn’t matter that I become angry.

Prabhupāda: [laughing] So let me beat you. You don’t become angry or become angry, I don’t care.

Karandhara: Well, they say, “That’s going on anyway.”

Prabhupāda: [laughs] That’s all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That… This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa; He was eating dirt. Then mother came, “My dear boy, why You are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa, I have given You.” “Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. [laughing] They are all the same.” “Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth.

But when you have to keep water, you require this water jug, not this earth.” That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, “Well, this is also earth, this is also… Why…? The pot is not required. Put water here.” Then you will suffer—no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. [break] …and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. [break] …the dogs must be on lash [leash]. If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, “There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash. Why you are punishing me?” But will that be accepted?

Karandhara: Well, the judge says, “There is no difference whether I put you in jail or not.”

Prabhupāda: [laughs] That’s it. Then he has to accept jail. He should not defend himself. “Never mind. I go to jail.” Why he appoints a lawyer to defend himself?

Karandhara: Well, that’s what the impersonalist philosophers say, that “Go ahead and…” [break]

Prajāpati: The most famous theologian of this century named Paul Tillich said that all words are symbols, and God is a religious symbol pointing to our ultimate concern.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that’s nice.

Prajāpati: That’s nice?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say also.

Karandhara: Except Paul Tillich was the ultimate rascal. He was a debaucher. He debauched women all over Europe.

Hṛdayānanda: He recently died.

Karandhara: There is a book about him, a very inflammatory book about how he would debauch all of his friends. He said he got all of his inspirations after having sex with other women. He said after having sex he would get his inspirations on theology.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the drunkards say also like that. They get inspiration by drinking. Yes.

Karandhara: There is one very famous philosopher named Dubrown[?]. He said that… He had a saying that “Some men say that you become intoxicated by wine, but I become sobered by wine.”

Prabhupāda: That can be accepted. “One man’s food, another man’s poison.” That is going on everywhere. But for that reason one cannot accept poison as food. Is it not? Just like stool is food for the pigs. But that does not mean stool is food. It may be food for a certain class of animal. [break] No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don’t think so.

Prajāpati: Food for somebody.

Karandhara: It is very hard.

Prajāpati: Harder than a bullet? [break]

Prabhupāda: Oh, you have not covered?

Child: That’s all right. [break]

Prajāpati: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, so they are coming to consciousness. Why they are praying to God?

Prajāpati: Things get so bad, they have to turn to God.

Prabhupāda: Duḥkhse sab hari bhaje. When one is distressed, there is sense of God consciousness. But if they continue it even in their happiness, then it is all right.